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unitednations

03-26 05:29 PM

UN,
Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this. As always, your time is highly appreciated.

So I assume in the Baltimore case, the 485 eventually did get approved (or if still pending, the USCIS atleast okayed the switch back to the petitioning employer despite the 140 revocation).

And yes, I am talking about cases where the 140 was revoked for genuine ability to pay reasons and not so the underlying labor could be substituted for someone else.


I tried looking for the baltimore case but I don't have it on this computer. You might want to search for it on immigration.com.

That case had a lot more things in it.

1) person never worked at the location as specified by the greencard labor
2) person acknowledged he wasn't going to work there upon greencard approval
3) person was claiming ac21 within same employer for different location


Administrative appeals office; concurred that ac21 wasn't specific to geographic location and didn't have to be done with another company; it could be done within same company.

Then AAO went another way and picked on some other issues: Other issues they picked on was information on his g-325a and his work locations. They picked onthat he didn't have h-1b's approved for those particular locations or LCA's and he was out of status. he was good on the ac21 but was out of status prior to filing 485.

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WaitingForMyGC

08-06 05:05 PM

Hi All, To avoid forgetting important occassions in your life and my wishing you on these occasions,
I have come up with this "Generic Wish/Sorry template" .Now do not complain that I have not wished or said sorry to you on these occassions. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- Please read this mail everyday
Is today your birthday? Happy birthday! We Wish you many may happy returns of the Day to you!

Is today your anniversary? Happy Anniversary! We wish many such beautiful and happy year of togetherness for both of you!

Is today a birthday of any of your family member? Happy birthday to "........................." (Write name of your family member)

We Wish you many may happy returns of the Day to "........................." !(Write name of your family member)

Is today an important festival? Happy "..............." to you and your family. (Please enter name of the festival here)

-Congratulations on your son/daughter becoming potty trained.

-Congratulations on your son/daughter's (1st ...234,567,980 th) step.

-Congratulations on your son/daughter passing (First..tenth) grade with grade (A.....F).

-Congratulations on your promotion. -Sorry to hear that your junior got double-promotion and he is your boss now.

-Congratulations to your Junior on his promotion(He is my kid's friend)

-Sorry to hear that your project got over.

-Sorry to hear about your unpaid bills.

-Congratulations..on getting new project ..is it long term ?

-Sorry to hear that your project got cancelled.

-Congratulations on getting new project again..is it long term ?

-Congratulation this project did not got cancelled.

-Congratulations on your new house.

-Sorry to hear that your loan-mortgage got rejected.

-Congratulations on your 2nd baby.

-Sorry to hear that you are expecting 3rd one.

-Sorry to hear that they are twins.

-Congratulations..your wife got the JOB.Congratulations Bhabhiji !!!.

-Sorry to hear that you are still paying her shopping bills.Once again..Congratulations Bhabhiji !!!.

-Sorry to hear that your son/daughter did not get the scholarship for college.

-Congratulations..your son/daughter doesn't want to go to college.

For coming years(another 25-30 yrs)...
- Sorry to hear about your premature retirement(VRS)/suspension.I know all those corruption charges are false and politically motivated.How long is the jail term ? Get on your feets again.

-Sorry to hear that you fell in the bathroom and fractured your back/legs..get well soon.

- Sorry to hear that your daughter is not willing to run away and she wants to have arrange marriage.Big blow to your already depleted bank balance.I hope you saved enough when working (If corruption charges were to be true). Have a big heart..old man.

-Sorry to hear that you had heart attack..but just to make you feel good..cancer is more painful and so is Piles.You should consider yourself lucky that you had heart attack. Get well soon...stand upright.

-Sorry to hear that you lost your mojo(vitality) completely.Don't try blue pill(Viagra) since you are a heart patient. Just to humor you; many of my old age friends use blue pill just not to pee on their legs. :-)

-Congratulations..I heard you got it back although for couple of minutes. How was the feeling ??Did you make most out of it?

-Sorry to hear that you wasted it and got a stress fracture in your hand due to that.

-Sorry to hear about your wife's arthritis. Now she may not be able to walk alongside you in all the ups & downs of your life.

-Sorry to hear that your daughter-in-law is misbehaving with you...may God forgive her and give her good sense.

-Sorry to hear that you haven't eaten for days now, please find attached photographs of delicious dishes. Please do not open dessert attachment if you are diabetic or non-vegetarian one if you are a vegetarian. Please reply how were they? Better than nothing..right?

-Sorry to hear that everyone has come to know about your illicit affair and illegal child...May God forgive you.I know it was just a fling, a one-time thing..went wrong.Take proper care/precautions next time.

- Sorry to hear that your son has thrown you out of your house ..get back soon.

-Sorry to hear that your illegal child has also kicked you out of his illegal encroached house.

-Sorry to hear he also disowned you.(Tell him that he is illegal and not you..he cannot disown you , you can).

-Sorry to hear about fight between your wife and your mistress(mother of your illegal child)..no one is ready to keep you with her( not even your keep). ..Don't lose your heart ..buddy.


-Sorry to hear that you had a heart attack(major) again( told you not to try blue pill and stop seeing your mistress) and you ran out of your insurance..get well soon..please TRY.

-Congratulations..old man.You survived 3rd heart attack.You are awesome.

-Sorry to hear about your sad demise(due to cold-flu)..sorry friend that I don't remember your name(I am running out of memory- just to humor you ...yesterday( or was it 5yrs back) I forgot my wife's name and called her Kareena Kapoor :-) .But were you the one with heart problem or cancer ? Though..none matters now..but nonetheless you were a great man..a great friend..a true admirer of beauty .. father to many(knowns and unknowns)..a man of impeccable character..may GOD rest your soul in peace.Please do not care to reply.Take rest.See yaa soon.

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sroyc

10-01 11:38 AM

Irrespective of who wins, the state of the economy will decide whether immigrant friendly bills will be passed by the Congress. When the times are good, when most Americans are happy with their jobs, very few people will spend their time opposing bills that favor us.

I've a very pessimistic view of the next 2 years. Most of the growth in the last 6-7 years was fueled by debt. Bailout or not, there will be more regulation on lending practices and consumers will find it harder to use their credit cards or home equity line of credit to buy things they really don't need. By some estimates, consumer spending accounts for 60-70% of the GDP, so you can imagine that any slowdown in spending will have a significant effect. I think that recovery from this downturn will be slow and painful. The only thing that can give the economy a huge boost is rapid growth in a new industry like green energy. It won't be easy to switch to green technology because of the strong hold of lobbyists from traditional energy companies over the Congress and it'll take a lot of political will and government spending to spur the green revolution. Will that happen under Obama or McCain? I've no clue. At least Obama has a plan to invest 15 billion dollars a year on renewable energy for the next 10 years.

Meanwhile, I'm not holding my breath for another immigration bill. It's time to explore opportunities in other countries - India/Singapore/China/U.K./Canada/Australia.

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H1B-GC

02-21 03:41 PM

An Avg. American gives an Damn to this 1/2 ton Polar Bear. When the Former CNN President Kicked this Polar Bear out of CNN in 2000, he Started advising the Fortune 100 Companies to Outsource Jobs to cut Costs in his new Job Profile and now he calls them Benedict Arnold.What a sick Mind he has!!

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Macaca

12-28 07:55 PM

Dying for data: the Indian activist killed for asking too many questions (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/dec/27/india-rti-activists-deaths) By Jason Burke | The Guardian

Shashidhar Mishra was always a curious man. Neighbours in the scruffy industrial town of Baroni, in the northern Indian state of Bihar, called him "kabri lal" or "the news man" because he was always so well informed.

Late every evening, the 35-year-old street hawker would sit down with his files and scribble notes. In February, the father of four was killed outside his home after a day's work selling pens, sweets and snacks in Baroni's bazaar.

The killing was swift and professional. The street lights went out, two men on motorbikes drew up and there were muffled shots. Mishra, an enthusiastic RTI activist, as those who systematically use India's right to information law to uncover wrongdoing and official incompetence are known, became the latest in the country's growing list of RTI martyrs.

The RTI law, introduced by the Congress party-led government in 2005, was a radical piece of legislation giving private citizens the right to demand written answers from India's always opaque and often corrupt bureaucracy and state institutions such as the police and army.

"It was a total paradigm shift from a regime of secrecy to one of transparency," the law minister, Veerappa Moily, said in an interview in Delhi. "It has changed the entire culture of governance."

In many ways, the law has been an astonishing success, prompting requests from tens of thousands of often poor, sometimes almost illiterate, always highly motivated citizens. In Bihar, more than 100,000 demands were made last year, 20 times as many as five years ago, said AK Choudry, the chief information commissioner for the state. In India as a whole at least a million RTI requests have now been filed.

"This act is for the common man of India. Without paying a bribe a poor man can get answers. We have the right to know what is happening in this country," said Afroz Alam Sahil, a student from Bihar who has registered hundreds of requests.

Yet, with the rule of law weak in much of the country, exercising new rights can mean danger. At least 10 activists have been killed so far this year. All found themselves up against powerful individuals, often in league with local authorities. One uncovered a series of corrupt land deals and thefts of social benefits by officials and was subsequently hacked to death near his home near the city of Pune, Maharashtra state.

A 55-year-old stallholder was killed after investigating electricity supplies and gambling dens in his home town of Surat in the western state of Gujarat. Two activists investigating fraud in government labour schemes for the poor were killed in the lawless eastern state of Jharkand, while others - including a 47-year-old sugar cane farmer in the central state of Maharashtra and an activist near the southern city of Bengaluru - were killed after investigating land acquisitions by big businessmen.

In July, Amit Jethava, a pharmacist in Gujarat who had hounded officials about mining endangering Asian lions, spotted deer and wild boar near his village was shot dead. There has since been a lull in the killings, but beatings, intimidations and threats continue.

Amitabh Thakur, who heads an RTI network in Lucknow, Uttar Pradesh, and is writing a book on the RTI martyrs said that "cases of murder, persecution, prosecution and harassment" are legion. "When you are digging for information there are people who try to hide it from you," he said. "They will do what it takes to keep it hidden."

The true number of activists killed could be much higher. Frequently, campaigners say, the authorities deny a link between the RTI requests and violence, dismissing incidents as everyday crime.

Choudry said that no killing linked to RTI had taken place in Bihar and that Mishra's death in February was "not linked to any RTI application". Local police denied Mishra was an activist and said they no longer had possession of the investigation file opened on his death. It contained, his family said, most of the answers he had received to his various RTI requests.

The dead man had hidden a box of papers at home that suggest the hawker's activism was indeed the reason for his murder. The documents, seen by the Guardian, included receipts for hundreds of different applications for information about local officials, businessmen and even the police themselves.

Mishra, described by his sister as a "sharp and smart guy", had started demanding information two years before his death. His first target was a local government-run dairy, a big employer, where he suspected animals were being mistreated. His next campaign focused on unlicensed stalls run on public land outside the local railway station. These were eventually demolished.

Encouraged by his success, Mishra asked for records of land purchases and sales by members of the local council over the last 20 years. In June last year, he began investigating the local market, largely built by local businessmen on government land. A month later, he asked why there was no electricity in the local health clinic. By the end of the year, he had established that many of the contracts awarded to resurface a road through the town were suspect. He spoke darkly to his family of death threats.

In December and January, Mishra filed a flurry of further information requests, asking for details of the postings of certain policemen and the whereabouts of vehicles the police had recently impounded.

On 9 February , he requested a list of those contracted to carry out construction of a road in the market. He also demanded the local council's 2009 accounts. The answer � which showed that at least �80,000 had been paid to contractors for work that had never been carried out � arrived in May, three months after his death.

His killers had used silenced handguns, the mark of professionals. That a power cut plunged the street into darkness for the few minutes they needed to work indicates the involvement of officials, campaigners claim.

Now his brother Mahdidar is trying to look after four extra children on a family income that has been halved. He told the Guardian he was "desperate".

"I want justice for my brother, but what can I do? There are many corrupt and powerful. I am just one man."

Cases of intimidation and violence are "isolated", Moily, the law minister, insisted. "Wherever protection is needed the government provides it."



'India's history is in two phases, before and after RTI' (http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/home/opinion/articlelist/articleshow/7180352.cms) Times of India

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Raju

05-24 03:32 PM

Raju, the unemployment is at 4.7%. That is good, but how about earning power and wage increases ? I hear all the time my friends report that they can no longer afford goods and services as they did five or four years ago. There are plenty of evidence that in many sectors wages have dropped or have stagnated. Is that indication of surplus pr shortage of workers ?

Regarding his idea of sending 15 millions of illegals out, that is not absurd. He never told he wanted to do it overnight. A gradual, slow deportation program yes, it would be probably the best way to handle this.

I am sorry if I look negative to you guys, but my goal is to be sincere and honest about facts here.

I think that wages have gone up drastically during the dotcom bubble and you should expect them to flatten for a few years. Also, the economy is coming out from a bust and that accounts to a little stagnation. It is simple man, the world also has to catch up. If you get the same job done for much less in coutries like China, India, Russia and romania, why do you think the wages will go up, unless there is a new technology, that absolutely needs cutting edge skills. This is the way it has been in ht past, this is the way it is in present and will be this way in future. The services and goods you are talking about will become more expensive if you want to send the undocumented workers out. And the wages may not go up that much because companies can get stuff done in other parts of the world. A reporter should talk about two sides of the issue and I have never seen Lou do that. I do not have the time/interest to find the transcripts but he had been offensive about H1s and I heard him say that H1's do not pay taxes, which is a blunder.

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sc3

08-05 08:29 PM

see below


Then check. Context is everything sometimes.


I checked, everything I said before, I stand by it.



There was no point, I said I did not believe it. I was showing the original poster that using a large black brush to tar a whole group of people is offensive and inappropriate. At least read my whole post before responding. I see I hit a nerve though. So it's ok for you t claim that EB2 means nothing and is ill gotten but not ok for me to talk about EB3?


So, I used your black brush to paint over your argument to the argument you claim to resolve. You should expect that, when you try to sling mud on others, you should be ready to get some mud on you too. You cant go complaining when you get the taste of your own medicine.


Bull crap. Don't make me open my mouth anout labor my friens. best we don't open this up.


Again you seem to be implying that we are getting our labor for free (or that we dont deserve it)... Can you say why? Agreed there are some (a lot?) who use loopholes etc, but then that is not restricted to EB3s alone.



I'm not in IT. the more I hear IT folks go at each other, the less I think of the field frankly. And yes, i do not know about you but I met several people who came in the tech boom, whose jobs a monkey could do. Sorry, just the truth.


I am not in IT either. I am into software research, but IT folks do the work that requires skills. In your home environment, you can slap-on machines and routers etc. and it works because you dont need performance, and because some IT and some developer sat together to bring out a product that was easy to use. In production environment, you need to support 1000s of "consumers". Performance reliability etc. is the key, and it takes a lot skills to manage. I am fairly skilled when it comes to computers, but still I will not match most of the IT folks that work in my company.

If monkeys could really do the job, and the managers hired humans, probably, the company was being managed by monkeys.

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pkak

12-27 08:31 PM

But I think you are wrong about Kayani. I haven't seen any reports about any intelligence agencies pointing fingers at Kayani. So, I am curious if you could provide any links. It sounds like a conspiracy theory otherwise.

Here is the link:
http://indiatoday.digitaltoday.in/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=22432&Itemid=1&issueid=84&sectionid=30&page=archieve&limit=1&limitstart=0

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malaGCPahije

07-14 09:29 AM

Do you have any idea what are you talking about and why are you talking about? In which year you entered into this GC hell queue? I would suggest you to go through last 8 years of EB category happenings and then you would realize why EB3-India are frustrated....I would generally write but before that I would think first and then write. Best Luck.

Eb2- I people are wrong when they think any steps taken by EB3-I are because of jealousy. I have contributed in each of IV effort knowing fully well that Eb3I is not going to be benefited by the effort. Still someone was getting the benefit. Now if EB3I want to do something, what is the issue? If a person from Eb2I with PD of 2006 feels that the reason behind efforts taken by a EB3 I person with PD of 2001/2002 is jealousy, then the EB2I person is being very narrow in his/her thinking. It should not take a huge amount of brainpower to realize the frustration and sadness the EB3 I person would be feeling. Irrespective of this I think a lot of people who contribute to IV campaigns are EB3I.

Everyone irrespective of what category he or she is would very easily realize that Eb3I needs help, else it is going nowhere. By reading comments in this thread, my fear is coming true that the help needed may not come from IV. Once all EB2 people get their GC, there would be no further fight for EB3.

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Refugee_New

01-06 12:38 PM

Israeli shelling kills more than 40 at UN school in Gaza.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jan/06/gaza-israel-death-un

More killing while the world watches silently.

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dontcareanymore

08-05 02:33 PM

Friend,

Your questions are valid and great arguments.
Do i care to answer them all, no. But since we are talking and not fighting, yes i will take some time to provide my input.
Thankyou for asking my input nicely, i like to belong to a group of educated and people who wear a head on their shoulders.

Now a days its in fashion to go to school and call oneself educated, which to me this is as absurd as buying a piano and calling one self musician. This is my version of an old saying (trying a little bit).

Again thanks for your politeness, and showing brotherhood.

Here is my input.


you asked - You can't generalize everything. Do you care to show how this is as bad as labor substitution ?


My 2 cents:
It was bad because many people were selling labor certificates. I know people who bought them for 10K, and got in green card line and well ahead in line than me and probably you ( we both are on the group today).

you said: How about Comparing job duties of all EB2s and EB3s
My 2 cents: why, what will this give you , other than some unrest and one more fight/arguments.

you said: Rules are made with good intentions and it is people that misuse them. But for the desi sweat shops selling labors , even the labor substitution has some merits in some cases (Again Not all).

My 2 cents: Yes i agree. This lawsuit idea is also to stop unjust practice, with good intentions and not all.

you said: Again , I don't really care what happens with this law suite (even if that happens). Just wanted to impress that there are very good number of legitimate cases where the PD porting makes sense and it is required.
My 2 cents:
you are right there are cases where porting makes sense, but you cant claim the same on all cases. There are cases where this practice is unjust and breaking the line.
Why do peole always port in favor of date/time to get faster green card. If porting is so justified ( job duties) how come no one ports to a category that is too late than one they are in.


Most importantly, you cant push people around, just be nice to people. Please.

I stand with you in this fight, but remember you stand with me too, and we stand together
to make a point for all.

Sorry , you can't hide your passive aggressiveness :)
AS I mentioned on other occasions this whole process is screwed up. it gets you worked up when some one compares this (PD recapture) to labor selling. IT IS NOT.

To answer what does one get by comparing the job duties : It gives a lot. It gives EB2 classification only to those who deserve it. I wish the rules are much stricter.So that those who can claim they are EB2 are really entitled to be EB2.

There is so much dirty laundry and not good to bring that in public. But if this law suite goes , it does not take very long to show how genuine some EB2s are.

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rajnag21

07-19 05:13 PM

UN,
Does that mean that I should maybe wait a month more to see if my h1 extension approval notice arrives else just premium process it, since the I94 expired in april 2007.

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yabadaba

11-15 11:54 AM

its embarrasing to see a journalist fall down the hole like that. I dont think he realizes that he works at CNN and not at Fox. Nobody else spins it along with him. Wolf Blitzer and the rest dont pay any attention to him. Even during the election results night the only thing he was asked to do was ask a couple of senators for their impression on how the results were looking.

The problem with Lou is that he goes on air every day and tells the American people that if they are having a miserable time or not saving enough money or their kids are not studying hard enough it is the fault of immigrants and corporations.

If there is a "perceived" class divide, it is because there are certain segments of the society that live beyond their means, dont save up for a rainy day and are not vested in their financial future. If you want your kid to go to college you have to be with them, talk to them and work through their issues with them. It is always easy to blame someone that is of a different color or of a different background for your problems but it is not the solution.

Outsourcing was an integral part of doing business in America even before India got involved. Ireland was the number 1 destination for outsourcing for years. They were never featured in the news. The thing is showing a bunch of indians sitting around and answeing calls has more shock value as compared to showing Irish people which would probably not register as it might seem like a call center right here in the US.

What Lou doesnt get is that his hateful tirade has prejudiced the minds of whatever demographic that he caters to. This inturn leads to everyday issues that we as immigrants face; whether it is a coworker who keeps prodding us about how jobs are going overseas, bad customer service at a restaurant or at the grocery store and sometimes hate crimes where one of us gets our head bashed in.

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bobzibub

04-07 11:56 AM

One part of the idiocy of this bill is that it places more burden upon the institutions where they cannot handle the work they have now.

If one has to apply for a labour cert every time you want an extension of an H1b, it will become unworkable. The main reasons for extending H1bs is because the DOL and USCIS take so long to process (or are not allowed to process) their existing workload today, including labour certs. This appears to compound an existing problem.

It is unfortunate that consulting is barred too. Consulting is a good gig. My main goal for going through this silly green card process is simply to consult individually.

If they actually addressed the problem, such as making the labor cert process simply a web site with a "Submit" button, then it would be an actual improvement. Is it really that difficult to compare a wage rate doing a certain job in a certain location with the market rate? Can't you do that now on Monster or Dice?

Remember the proportion of applications rejected are dwarfed by the proportion of applications that are simply abandoned. Probably due to the time it takes for them to get around processing them using their super-modern VDT technology.

Could we please *at least* have an exemption for technical consulting to the DOL and USCIS? They really could use some professional assistance.

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Vsach

01-09 06:14 PM

:confused:

Why can't we all plan a strategy to get the Green Card process going....rather waste time discussing something like this????


:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: :rolleyes::rolleyes:

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Macaca

12-28 07:23 PM

In India, a struggle for moderation as a young Muslim woman quietly battles extremism (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/12/27/AR2010122704519.html) By Emily Wax | Washington Post

Rubina Sandhi had settled in for a night of homework when panic swept through the narrow, congested alleys of her neighborhood.

It was Sept. 11, 2001. Television sets in the mosques, tea shops and market were beaming images of the World Trade Center engulfed in flames in New York. Five months later, Rubina's house was burning as Hindu mobs torched Muslim areas of her city, leaving thousands of people homeless. She remembers smoke hovering over Ahmedabad just as it had over New York.

With their few remaining possessions, Rubina's family members took refuge in a squalid relief camp and, several weeks later, moved into ramshackle housing on the edge of the city - where only Muslims lived and worked. "We felt like ghosts," recalled Rubina, who was then 12.

The rioting was among India's worst sectarian violence in decades, hardening divisions between the Hindu majority and the country's 140 million Muslims as hard-liners on both sides sought to exploit the tensions. Soon after the rioting, many young Muslims in Rubina's neighborhood started following stricter forms of Islam as imams fanned out into the region's poorest Muslim areas, some bringing with them Wahhabism, the fundamentalist form of Islam practiced in Saudi Arabia.

Some Indian Muslims even sought training in Pakistan to carry out acts of revenge in India, their version of violent jihad. For her part, Rubina chose a different struggle, determined to be a good Muslim and daughter as the community around her became more radicalized. She fought for the right to make decisions for herself, and she tried to find a way to voice her beliefs as a woman, as others around her were being silenced.

Her decisions would mirror those of many other young Muslim women in her city who entered adulthood in the aftermath of religious violence and the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks. She would be asked to compromise her dreams, and her commitment to Islam would be questioned.

Ahmedabad, a 600-year-old city in the state of Gujarat, has long been a vibrant historical center where religions aspired to coexist. It was the headquarters for Mahatma Gandhi's ashram and his peaceful freedom struggle and is celebrated for its Indo-Islamic architecture. Of the city's 5 million people, 11 percent are Muslim.

Before the riots, many Muslims in Rubina's neighborhood celebrated Hindu traditions. Yet tensions between Hindus and Muslims here often rose to the surface.

The violence in 2002 erupted after 59 Hindus were burned to death on a train as they were returning home from a pilgrimage site. Muslim extremists were blamed for the blaze, but the cause of the fire remains in dispute. In 2004, a government-appointed panel ruled that the train fire was an accident and not caused by Muslims.

Soon after the anti-Muslim riots, extremist imams started to gain more clout. Among them was a firebrand televangelist named Zakir Naik, whose weekly sermons are broadcast from Mumbai and Saudi Arabia. Thousands of young Muslims have been drawn to his powerful slogans, including his declaration that to defend Islam, "every Muslim should be a terrorist."

This more conservative brand of Islam became more acceptable, and it seemed to empower Muslim men in India. But it had the opposite effect on Muslim women. The imams and mullahs warned young women to stay indoors, to forgo higher education and to become dutiful mothers of as many children as God would give them. The children, they said, would replace the Muslims killed during the riots.

"The Hindu mobs who attacked us called us all terrorists. Then the mullahs wanted to take away our freedoms," Rubina said, adding: "Everyone felt confused."

A pervasive fear

Rubina's father, Mohammed Sandhi, had an eighth-grade education and a job selling incense sticks to Hindu temples. When he was a young boy, his grandparents had told him haunting stories about Muslim-Hindu tensions in the 1930s and rioting in the southern city of Hyderabad that forced the family to migrate to Ahmedabad.

Mohammed believed in the aspirations of a rising India. He had saved for years to move the family into a comfortable two-room home, and he hoped that his two children - Rubina and her older brother, Irfan - would be the first in their family to attend college.

But after the riots, Mohammed began to believe that his ambitions were naive, at least for Indian Muslims. "We thought that was the past, over, just our history. But after the 2002 riots, we worry every day that the violence could happen again," he said.

In the street just outside the family's housing complex, 69 people, mostly Muslims, were burned alive during the riots, the first and largest single massacre during the crisis, a federal investigation later found.

From there, fighting spread. Over the next two months, more than 200 mosques and hundreds of Muslim shrines were burned down, and 17 ancient Hindu temples were attacked, according to police and human rights workers.

Everything in Rubina's home was destroyed: childhood photographs, birth certificates, school records and land deeds.

The family left behind the charred ruins of their home for a relief camp, one of more than 100 that housed 150,000 Muslims after the riots.

The city slowly calmed, but acts of violence on both sides continued and people remained fearful.

Watching their parents weep, Rubina and Irfan grew angrier and more confused. "We never thought this could happen here," said Rubina's mother, Mumtaz Sandhi. "We thought we are Muslims. But we are also Indians."

Silencing women's voices

After several weeks in the camps, Rubina's family settled in Juhapura, a poor area on the western outskirts of the city where many Muslims moved from Hindu-dominated localities.

The neighborhood has some middle-class areas but is largely poor, and activists have fought for basic government services, including paved roads, a sewage treatment system and garbage collection.

During her teenage years, Rubina started to notice that her brother, like many young Muslim men, was growing more observant of Islam, more conservative, introverted. They had always been close, and tragedy had strengthened their bond. But their paths began to diverge as Irfan sought comfort and sanctuary in the strictures of Islam.

Rubina, like other young Muslim women, feared she would lose her freedom under those strictures. She resisted calls from increasingly conservative imams to wear a traditional black garment that covers the body and sometimes the face.

In Gujarat, more and more women suddenly started dressing more conservatively, often as a show of Muslim pride but also to ward off sexual advances and potential sexual violence.

Rubina's mother began covering her hair, and Rubina said Irfan soon told her that he preferred to marry a woman who dressed conservatively.

Around this time, Rubina met a social worker named Jamila Khan at a meeting for Muslim women concerned about the living conditions in Juhapura and profiling of Muslim men as terrorists. But Khan also spoke out against Muslim leaders intent on reeling in Muslim women, curbing the liberties enshrined in India's secular constitution. She described herself as an "Islamic feminist."

"It doesn't matter what our women were wearing," Khan told Rubina and her friends. "What is important is still having a voice. Islamic rigidity is silencing our most dynamic Muslim female minds."

Many of Rubina's peers were giving up on having a career and were marrying and starting families earlier. Instead of going to college to study business or medicine, many were taking up courses at nearby mosques that taught them to be good Muslim wives.

But as Rubina entered young adulthood, she said, she became aware of the hypocrisy among many of the imams. Although they preached that Muslim women should be homemakers, they sent their daughters to private schools and universities in Britain, Canada and the United States.

During her first and only year at college, a Hindu extremist group circulating on campus began warning Hindus against having friendships or romantic relationships with Muslims. Rubina said some Hindu students started calling the places where Muslim students gathered "the Gaza Strip" or "Pakistan."

"But I am Indian, too," Rubina said she wanted to tell them. She felt ashamed. Betrayed. Silenced.

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more...


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sanju

12-17 03:08 PM

This is exactly I hate. To divert focus of terrorism to Hindu group, Muslim leader comes out - WOW!

Sounds like LeT informed Hindu group in advance that they are going to attack so as a by-product they can kill Karkare. Ha ha ha.

Times Of India Headline: Antulay raises doubts over Karkare's killing

Marphad,

In the recent past, I expressed my views about the same subject on this forum. I was very angry with what happened in Mumbai. The desire to fix the wrong has not faded, but now that I look back, I regret some of the things I said at that time. My comments did not do any good and some of the coments offend few others on this forum. Those who felt offended by my comments are just as entitled to these forums as I am. I am not trying to be politically correct, just trying to say that it doesn't serves any purpose to discuss this issue on IV fourms.

Branding all people from a specific faith doesn't help in anyways. For too long men have fought because of religion and each such time was avoidable.

I do have a suggestion. To get some perspective, I suggest you watch the bollywood movie "New York", although I am not a big fan of bollywood movies.

Peace.


.

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bharol

01-06 09:22 PM

Hamas has to be blamed for civilian deaths as well.
Current propaganda by them portrays Hamas as innocent and puts all blame on Israel. Hamas has a history of using civilians as human shields. They are cruel even to their own people.

see these to believe.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0wJXf2nt4Y

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBYtij4Q7sE

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panky72

08-06 03:20 PM

A man dies and goes to hell. There he finds that there is a different hell for each country. He goes to the German hell and asks, "What do they do here?" He told," First they put you in an electric chair for an hour. Then they lay you on a bed of nails for another hour. Then the German devil comes in and beats you for the rest of the day."

The man does not like the sound of that at all, so he moves on. He checks out the USA hell as well as the Russian hell and many more. He discovers that they are all more or less the same as the German hell.

Then he comes to the Indian hell and finds that there is a long line of people waiting to get in. Amazed, he asks, "What do they do here?" He told, "First they put you in an electric chair for an hour. Then they lay you on a bed of nails for another hour. Then the Indian devil comes in and beats you for the rest of the day." "But that is exactly the same as all the other hells - why are there so many people waiting to get in?"

"Because maintenance is so bad that the electric chair does not work, someone has stolen all the nails from the bed, and the devil is a Software Engineer , so he comes in, signs the register and then goes to the Cafeteria!!! !!

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gcbikari

08-06 01:36 PM

Bihar Driving License...

DRIVING LICENSE APPLIKASON PHOROM
------------------------------------------ -----------------------


NOTE: Please do not soot the person at the applikason kounter.
He will give you the licen.
For phurthar instructions, see bottom applikason.


1. Last name:

(_) Yadav (_) Sinha (_) Pandey (_) Misra (_) Dot no

(Check karet box)

2. First name:

(_) Ramprasad (_) Lakhan (_) Sivprasad (_) Jamnaprasad (_) Dot no

(Check karet box)

3. Age:

(_) Less than phipty (_) Greater than phipty (_) Dot no

(Check karet box)

4. Sex: ____ M _____ P(F) _____ not sure _____not applicable

5. Chappal Size: ____ Lepht ____ Right

6.Occupason:

(_) Politison (_) Doodhwala (_) Pehelwaan (_) House wife (_) Un-employed

(Check karet box)

7. Number of children libing in the household: ___

8. Number that are yours: ___
9. Mather name: _______________________

10. Phather Name: ____________________ (If not no,leave blank)

11. Ejjucason: 1 2 3 4 (Circle highest grade completed)

12. Dental rekard:

(_) Ellow (_) Berownish-ellow (_) Berown (_) Belack (_) Other -__________
Give egjhakt color

(Check karet box)

13.Your thumb imparesson :
____________________________

(If you are copying from another applikason pharom, please do not copy
thumb impression also. Please
provide your own thumb impression.)

PELEASE DO NOT USE PHINGERS OF YOUR LEGS

Use thumb on y our lepht hand only. If you dont have le pht hand, use your
thumb on right hand. If you do not have right hand, use thumb on lepht
hand.

NOTE: IF YOU DONT HAVE BOTH HANDS, YOU CANNOT DRIVE.

WE ARE VARY ISTRICT ABOUT THIS .

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r2i2009

05-04 01:10 PM

House...forget it......


It will never reach those highs again...

In US..RE is done.

Not 485...look at the number of foreclosures.....and inflation.....

untill the war is over...forget...

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